Curse

Moloch Vein · Nov 14, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Well since there is no more healers boon for them they benefit less from going /mo.

HB is still usable for a N primary, and the cost to keep it up isn't wildly higher.

Surena · Nov 14, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

No, I am telling you that the inclusion of minions boosts the energy regain capacity of the necromancer to the point where it can be incredibly more effective.

Soul Reaping and the effective use thereof _is_ the necromancer energy management. That's the way you gain energy without being so bloody "leet" and going /E GoLE or /Me AI. Well, at least some people seem to think that's real leet. I just think it's usually beyond retarded in a PvE setting.

Passive e-management + SoLS = outstanding

Sab · Nov 14, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

As well it should be. A class with no other function of their primary attribute than providing energy, with slow spells that cost a fortune, limited energy pool and almost no skills in their primary attribute should have the best energy management in the game.

The timer was added to stop the spiritway "exploit". The spiritway "exploit". is. removed.

A comparison: The energy management function of critical strikes is tied to the assassin hitting something. The energy management of a necromancer is tied to things dying. What is more likely?

Do assassins usually run out of energy? How about paragons, do they frequently get e-denied?

What amazes me the most is how people still clamor for more nerfs to the most nerfed primary in Guild Wars.

Are you having trouble managing your energy as a Necro? If you are, either your're not killing things, or your skill bar is too energy heavy. The former problem has nothing to do with Soul Reaping being nerfed, and the latter you solve by revising your skill bar.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

Yeah, they already hit deadly paradox with the nerf bat, but SOJ sin is still very much alive. As much as I hate the build, I'll be probably be using it in protest for as long as this update is in effect.

If anet keeps doing small updates on a regular basis I think more nerfs will follow. Walking Trees are still troublesome as well, I can hardly imagine they will be left untouched tbh.

aapo · Nov 14, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

* Black Lotus Strike: decreased Energy gain to 5..18; this skill now counts as a lead attack.

- Hit on Shadow Prison sins. Good!

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* Expose Defenses: decreased duration to 1..11 seconds.

- Also hit on stupid uncounterable Assassins. Good!

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* Horns of the Ox: decreased damage to 1..11.
* Impale: increased casting time to 1 second.
* Trampling Ox: decreased damage to 5..20.

- More Assassin nerfs. Good!

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* Ineptitude: increased recharge time to 20 seconds.

- It was a reasonable adjustment considering Clumsiness spam and Ineptitude can pretty much disable spikes at will.

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* Word of Healing: decreased unconditional heal amount to 5..130.

- It was a bit too good.

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* Soul Reaping: no longer gains any benefit from Spirits.

- Good! Finally getting rid of this degenerate spirit spam heroway shit that's flooding all over HA and GvG!

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* Barrage: increased damage to 5..20 damage.

- Compensation for Splinter Weapon nerf. Nice to see Izzy cares about PvE players too.

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* Energizing Wind: decreased duration to 1..31 seconds.

- Also nerf for degenerate spirit spam heroway shit.

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* Magebane Shot: increased disable time to 10 seconds; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.

- Now it seems useful. Have to see if it turns too powerful.

Quote:

* Player Pets: no longer leave exploitable corpses.

- Also nerf for degenerate spirit spam heroway shit. One of the biggest changes.

Quote:

* Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing.

- Now that LoD is no longer that good, it's nice to see Izzy cares about PvE players too by giving henchman better elite skill.

So what exactly was wrong with this update?

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

You know, despite the complaints, I am really, really happy at seeing another skill balancing so soon after the last one. One would suspect that this one would be tweaks to the last one, but aside from WoH (and perhaps Barrage as an answer to the nerf to Splinter Weapon), these changes seem entirely unrelated to the last update.

I would love nothing more than to have frequent updates like this, though I know it won't happen. Though, perhaps a request to balances a little more frequent than we have had in the past? I know it would cause a number of s**tstorms of whining on these boards, but I think this is a much better way of keeping things in-game interesting.

What can I say? I love testing new skills and combinations out.

Moloch Vein · Nov 14, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Are you having trouble managing your energy as a Necro?

No.

Quote:

If you are, either your're not killing things, or your skill bar is too energy heavy. The former problem has nothing to do with Soul Reaping being nerfed, and the latter you solve by revising your skill bar.

I believe we are talking past each other.

The cost of the necromancer spells is tied to a pve setting where things die with alarming regularity. In order to compensate for this in a pvp setting there has been the need to create "death energy machines" for necromancers to be viable.

With all the strikes and all the hate against this profession from the developer team during the last months, the entire necromancer spell line must be gone over to compensate, or the necromancer will simply fall out of use in pvp. More or less completely.

Crowell The Fallen · Nov 14, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Soul Reaping energy for PVP will be interesting.
Not sure why they really needed to make pet corpses unexploitable. doesnt seem logical. its an animal... of course it leaves a corpse... o.O;

Apart from that, good update. WoH was indeed overpowered.

gg

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I believe we are talking past each other.

The cost of the necromancer spells is tied to a pve setting where things die with alarming regularity. In order to compensate for this in a pvp setting there has been the need to create "death energy machines" for necromancers to be viable.

With all the strikes and all the hate against this profession from the developer team during the last months, the entire necromancer spell line must be gone over to compensate, or the necromancer will simply fall out of use in pvp. More or less completely.

Heh like playing necro in 4 vs 4. That's a lot harder now then it used to be. I have to take glyph of lesser energy in there in order to succeed. This means no off monk draw/hex remove. You have a good point here. Too bad the "death energy machines" used in PvP were so utterly cheesy. If there would be an alternative that actually required skill it would be nice.

Sacrificing necro effectiveness in order to kill spirit-spam crap is still a good trade off however.

Sab · Nov 14, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

No.
I believe we are talking past each other.

The cost of the necromancer spells is tied to a pve setting where things die with alarming regularity. In order to compensate for this in a pvp setting there has been the need to create "death energy machines" for necromancers to be viable.

With all the strikes and all the hate against this profession from the developer team during the last months, the entire necromancer spell line must be gone over to compensate, or the necromancer will simply fall out of use in pvp. More or less completely.

So you're concerned about Necros' viability in PvP? The problem there is not with energy management - it's that they have little to offer in a balanced build. You pretty much have to run a gimmick if you want to work a Necro in your team (B-spike, Icy Veins spike, hex overload, Taint/condition overload, poop&thump). If you want to promote Necros in PvP, you need to rework their skills so they're actually useful outside of gimmicks, i.e. more skills like Corrupt and Defile Defenses.

Abnaxus · Nov 14, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

The SR nerf is not enough. Remove SR for minions also.

Make Animate Bone Minions cost 25e.

It is time to close the shameful SR exploit chapter of GW.

It's high time to restrict PvP to wammos mongos and eles, let them beat each other in closed arenas as much as they want, and call this high end PvP so they can go around proud of it.

And let us enjoy our noob PvE without having to worry about their whines to A.net mommy.

Moloch Vein · Nov 14, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Re: Sab

That's exactly my point.

I wasn't happy that the N role in pvp was relegated to more or less cheap gimmicks. However, it was the only role it had. If that role is removed, we need something else.

De Wilde · Nov 14, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

As they say in the acting business.. Cope and adapt.

Pets don't leave corpses? How about in areas where bodies aren't plentiful play a game of rock paper scissors if you're in a group with other people and see who commits hari kiri. If you're MMing with only heroes/hench send out one of the more annying ones (Norgu for me) and have them become a sheep for the cause.. IF you need a corpse that darn badly, you get one.

The sin's hit can't be as bad as people say it is. It's not absolutely earth shattering - learn to look, think, and work outside the box. Sins are a really really really versatile group.

Take off the time for the soul repaing kkthx

Barrage buff is interesting, haven't tried it yet, much happy with the elite I have on my skillbar atm as is.

Energizing winds could be coupled with serpents swiftness to perhaps make it somewhat easier? I dunno.

But seriously guys.. 24 pages (no doubt 25 by the time I'm done) of complaining.. Is a li'l bit much. =/

*tosses her 2g out on the table*

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

So you're concerned about Necros' viability in PvP? The problem there is not with energy management - it's that they have little to offer in a balanced build. You pretty much have to run a gimmick if you want to work a Necro in your team (B-spike, Icy Veins spike, hex overload, Taint/condition overload, poop&thump). If you want to promote Necros in PvP, you need to rework their skills so they're actually useful outside of gimmicks, i.e. more skills like Corrupt and Defile Defenses.

Very good post, Spamming overpriced 2 sec cast curses doesn't scream PvP to begin with. And playing corrupt enchant builds is fun as hell. Enchantments are everywhere. With the necro you describe you can function in any team pretty well and also play an interesting game.

aapo · Nov 14, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar

Nothing, sir, absolutely nothing, but if people cant complain for 24 pages on the internet, then it wouldn't be the internet would it?

- That's what I thought. And most of the complaints seen here come from players who have absolutely no clue why skills get nerfed. People think it's some kind of divine right for Rangers to drop mobs of Mindblade Spectres and other endgame creatures with single casting of Splinter Weapon and Barrage. Now that Splinter Weapon was nerfed, Barrage was buffed to compensate, yet people cry it's not enough.

And this pet thing? Yes, tonight I will shed a tear for all those N/R players with Charm Animal and Flesh golem in their bar, who must now actually kill a Jade Brotherhood Knight instead of feeding their poor pet to them to create a corpse.

Effendi Westland · Nov 14, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

So what exactly was wrong with this update?

I fail to spot it too...

Gun Pierson · Nov 14, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Tx Anet for giving Mhenlo a better elite. I still think the 'divine intervention' skill on his bar could be replaced by a better spell imo.

mr_groovy · Nov 14, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- That's what I thought. And most of the complaints seen here come from players who have absolutely no clue why skills get nerfed. People think it's some kind of divine right for Rangers to drop mobs of Mindblade Spectres and other endgame creatures with single casting of Splinter Weapon and Barrage. Now that Splinter Weapon was nerfed, Barrage was buffed to compensate, yet people cry it's not enough.

And this pet thing? Yes, tonight I will shed a tear for all those N/R players with Charm Animal and Flesh golem in their bar, who must now actually kill a Jade Brotherhood Knight instead of feeding their poor pet to them to create a corpse.

N/r in pve? Lol wut I all ways take another necro hero with me, who sacs himself for the fleshy guy.

/endsarcasm

Theus · Nov 14, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

I don't understand what the sins are complaining about.

You just need to go out and buy a copy of Gw:EN and you'll be good as new.

Nothing says fun like buying skills to be good.

Shadow Prison
Black Mantis Thrust
Lotus Strike
Trampling Ox

Just for the low low price of 39.99 your assassin can be as good as new!

Joking aside I find it strange that the skills that were nerfed for assassins have.."twins" in GW:EN.Which act almost exactly or better than Black Lotus Strike and Horns of the Ox.

zwei2stein · Nov 14, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Inneptitude nerf ... why? IT was kinda staple of PvE illusion builds ... you know, the ones that make mesmer playable on bad ping.

No pet corpses: aehm. WAS IT THAT HARD NOT TO KILL PETS? seriously, if necromancer for same team as peat owners used it o become imba, just, doh, dont kill pets, rather kill like ... its master.